Enrique schrieb:
By the way, I was living many years in Scandinavia, Denmark and Iceland, but I never had problems of this kind. Of course, at that time there was no digital camera, it was the era of the analog camera.
analog is well recommended. extremer Kälte in Greenland
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analog is well recommended.
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Für meinen Tip will ich ein extra Foto haben!
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Gerhard57 schrieb:
Für meinen Tip will ich ein extra Foto haben!
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i don't understand the difference between the "before" and "after" pictures. before what? after what? what happened inbetween?
anyway..
one thing that might happen is that the cold is changing the focus calibration. a camera with live-view is your friend. uses even more battery, but what you see is what you get.
going from warm into the cold is usually not much of a problem, i never had issues with that. and while the electronics and batteries might not be happy about the temperature, there is no such thing as freezing the sensor. astro-cameras cool their sensor extra low, so they get less noise. otherwise projects like "Chasing Ice" would never have worked.
but. going from cold into warm is the killer for the camera, because the warm air can contain much more water which will condense on any cold surface. try it with (sun)glasses. same effect.
so as others have said, take out the memory card, put the camera and ALL lenses into ziplock bags, then let them warm up to the conditions in the room before opening the bag. depending on the difference this might take up to two or three hours. you can always go back outside before and continue shooting. pro-tip: if you do indoor and outdoor shooting, you want two different cameras and lenses.
by the way, cameras using film have the exact same problem. even worse, the condensing water will get into the gelatine of the film, which can stick it together. on the other side film becomes brittle in really cold conditions, motor drives are "forbidden" as they put way too much stress on the film.
so stick with digital and be happy that you can shoot night time exposures in the multi-minute range without any thermal noise coming from the sensor. you just need a lot of batteries - or an battery-slot adapter and extension cable with the battery pack in the jacket.
enjoy the winter. =)
PS: do not charge any batteries below 0°C ... you will kill them if the charger does not compensate for the low temperature. -
Hi Grubernd,
GRUBERND schrieb:
i don't understand the difference between the "before" and "after" pictures. before what? after what? what happened inbetween?
anyway..
one thing that might happen is that the cold is changing the focus calibration. a camera with live-view is your friend. uses even more battery, but what you see is what you get.
going from warm into the cold is usually not much of a problem, i never had issues with that. and while the electronics and batteries might not be happy about the temperature, there is no such thing as freezing the sensor. astro-cameras cool their sensor extra low, so they get less noise. otherwise projects like "Chasing Ice" would never have worked.
but. going from cold into warm is the killer for the camera, because the warm air can contain much more water which will condense on any cold surface. try it with (sun)glasses. same effect.
so as others have said, take out the memory card, put the camera and ALL lenses into ziplock bags, then let them warm up to the conditions in the room before opening the bag. depending on the difference this might take up to two or three hours. you can always go back outside before and continue shooting. pro-tip: if you do indoor and outdoor shooting, you want two different cameras and lenses.
by the way, cameras using film have the exact same problem. even worse, the condensing water will get into the gelatine of the film, which can stick it together. on the other side film becomes brittle in really cold conditions, motor drives are "forbidden" as they put way too much stress on the film.
so stick with digital and be happy that you can shoot night time exposures in the multi-minute range without any thermal noise coming from the sensor. you just need a lot of batteries - or an battery-slot adapter and extension cable with the battery pack in the jacket.
enjoy the winter. =)
PS: do not charge any batteries below 0°C ... you will kill them if the charger does not compensate for the low temperature.
Thank you very much for your detailed information.
From what I read and what you say, I see now I made many mistakes on the ground in my first trip to Greenland. In fact, from time to time, it was a nightmare. Especially as one approaches the ice cap of Greenland (island in) the cold becomes more intense and the humidity penetrates deeply your bones... and the bones of the camera too.
I appreciate your suggestions. I will take them into account when I am walking on the frozen sea of Baffin Bay.
I'm making a list of all these suggestions to test them on the ground. Then I will tell everybody if they worked or if I had to invent new strategies to solve these problems.
And again, thank you for taking the time and being so precise.
Enrique
PS: I just saw the doc Chasing Ice. I see they had a big budget to solve problems. Mine is very small. Even so, I'm thinking about buying a second-hand Nikon D810 ... just in case. -
.. that's right, nonetheless you'll probably take less problems using a crude mechanical tool over an extreme cold period.
GRUBERND schrieb:
by the way, cameras using film have the exact same problem. even worse, the condensing water will get into the gelatine of the film, which can stick it together. on the other side film becomes brittle in really cold conditions, motor drives are "forbidden" as they put way too much stress on the film.
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morgenrot schrieb:
.. that's right, nonetheless you'll probably take less problems using a crude mechanical tool over an extreme cold period.GRUBERND schrieb:
by the way, cameras using film have the exact same problem. even worse, the condensing water will get into the gelatine of the film, which can stick it together. on the other side film becomes brittle in really cold conditions, motor drives are "forbidden" as they put way too much stress on the film.
klar, das sagen die experten !! -
and that is the key point ... it must be one of the few reliable fully mechanical cameras .. for him as a Nikon shooter that leaves only the FM2 (and maybe the FM3a), everything else is not worth the try.
morgenrot schrieb:
less problems using a crude mechanical tool
btw, cold winters in the mountains in Austria was the reason i sold my Minolta X700 and bought a FM2 back in 1995. had no problems with it, but that camera is long retired. my last multi-day winter tour - always outside, so i could only keep the batteries in the sleeping bag - was 2014 with a Panasonic GF5. also no problems.
if the reason for taking a camera to Greenland is more than few and inbetween "Schnappschüsse" and the battery problem can be solved in any way - i would always take a digital camera these days. -
if you have the time until your trip: call a shop or company with a walk-in deep freezer, like a butcher, or Iglo. or some physics institute with a climate chamber. ask them if you can test your setup there.
Metro has a huge deep-freeze department in every shop..
but you must be able to stand in the cold yourself, otherwise you can not pack the camera into a bag without getting warm inside.
good luck! -
Decades ago I prefered a Leica R4 (Minolta) on Canadian Yukon territory, sometimes with twenty below.
GRUBERND schrieb:
cold winters in the mountains
But always had a second camera with me!
Nowadays it should be no problem with a digital one, but - as recommended above - handle with care. -
und dazu einen Film auf PET-Träger, der reißt/bricht nicht in der Kälte.
morgenrot schrieb:
.. that's right, nonetheless you'll probably take less problems using a crude mechanical tool over an extreme cold period.GRUBERND schrieb:
by the way, cameras using film have the exact same problem. even worse, the condensing water will get into the gelatine of the film, which can stick it together. on the other side film becomes brittle in really cold conditions, motor drives are "forbidden" as they put way too much stress on the film.
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Da könntest Du auch mit einer Analogen Spiegelreflexcamera und Film fotografieren.
Die ist vielleicht nicht so Kälteempfindlich.
Hg Toni -
Roland Amundsen konnte 1911 am Südpol mit seiner Analogen Kamera Reisebilder machen ! Vermutlich war es eine Plattenkamera LG. Peter
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In welchem Forum der wohl vorher gefragt hat??
peterbild schrieb:
Roland Amundsen konnte 1911 am Südpol mit seiner Analogen Kamera Reisebilder machen ! Vermutlich war es eine Plattenkamera LG. Peter
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Ich würde mir eine Nikon F3 oder eine F2 mitnehmen. Die F3 wurde in der Jordanischen Wüste getestet. Sollte auch gegenteilig Funktionieren.
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Die F2 kann auch ohne bzw mit erfrorener Batterie.
Nikon F3 schrieb:
Ich würde mir eine Nikon F3 oder eine F2 mitnehmen. Die F3 wurde in der Jordanischen Wüste getestet. Sollte auch gegenteilig Funktionieren.
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die hat die selben Probleme wie eine digitale.. Batterie heizen, Kondenswasser beim Eintreten in einen wärmeren Raum, usw.
Nikon F3 schrieb:
Ich würde mir eine Nikon F3
man darf nicht vergessen, dass bei -20°C bereits ein Raum mit 0°C warm genug ist um zu Kondenswasserbildung zu führen.
und dann das ganze Gschissti-Gschassti mit den kleinen Speichermedien, die genauso anfällig auf Kondenswasser sind usw.
siehe oben, nur sinnvoll & praktisch wenn man vielleicht zwei, drei Bilder pro Tag machen will. wer jemals bei wirklichen Minusgraden einen Film gewechselt hat, weiss wovon ich rede. brrrr. unlustig. -
Hallo hallo liebe Leute,
I owed to you some pictures from Greenland (as I promised)...I'm here working with hunters and fishers. The 4th of February we had the first a little piece of sun in many months. But it is still very cold anyway. I’ve worked hard in these weeks. But I return to Vienna in April when the winter is gone.
These pictures are only to show something from here, not for a technical studies about them...I'm saying for the "pickies" or "sticklers" who always walking around.
About the extreme cold and the digital camera I will write a post later. But basically the Nikon D850 has had a very good performance in spite of the sudden changes of temperatures. I found a method for working in the extreme cold environment.
Beste Grüße
PS.
Gerhard, take whatever photo you want to. And please, everyone dont hang it in internet...these are only for your eyes -
Thank you for sharing. This are quite nice pictures. And I'm curious: how cold is "cold" in Greenland?
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forty below
Photo-Sorko schrieb:
And I'm curious: how cold is "cold" in Greenland?
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